To Calinou,
Be sure to wait a while with doing such things, since I'm planning to experiment in the bases a bit for an even better flow (so if you really want, try to start at the center settings waypoints :P).

To p1nokjo,
The duke textures are from a textureset I once helped the mod IronFist to create bump-, spec-, and heightmaps for those textures.
For the evil-lair textures, they are all be downloadable just right here.

If you download it of the original author, you still need to bump-, spec-, and heightmap all stuff, so why don't you try the following links?

For the e6 textures, click here.
For the e7 textures, click here.
For the e8 textures, click here.
For the eX textures, click here.

Beware! Some of them are outdated, since I'm pretty sure none has heightmaps in it (exept the e7- and eX-texturepack).

To Calinou,

Very nice, but there are some mistakes in it, for example:
- They can't grab the YA (which will be hard for bots tough).
- The red balcony isn't waypointed.
- The blue base and red base have waypoints which make the bots fall into the lava when they take the half-pipe which is the most far from the centre of the map.
- There is 1 building of red which hasn't got any waypoints.

I appreciate for setting up waypoints, thanks a lot (still would see these improvements by you :P).

To everyone around here,
If you have any texture errors, please notify in a comment about which textures your talking about, so I can fix it (since I don't have them :S).

You need to stop rushing with waypoints, you often miss spots or don't cover falls/jumps well enough. >_>

Thanks for you comment.
I would actually see some constructive comment about what I could do better (especially on lighting), but that request is probably too high priced.

Don't worry about the screenshot, I'll update it soon after I'm done with all improvements (since I already got some new ideas about improving the lights).

You probably missed my "Will look at the map as soon as possible": You can expect a more constructive comment soon. Not on the lighting though (sorry, I suck at judging the lighting) ;)

0.0 No I'm not aware of the texture errors and I really would like to know them (so please do me a favour and report).
2. As I've learned from earlier edition (and just people around here), never trust the light which gets emitted by any playermodel.
3. I know the asphalt-texture of duke should be replaced (since it doesn't look ruined at all, while the textures in the buildings are). But what do you mean with the mapmodels are placed random?
4.You remember this map ;D?
5.Very nice idea about labeling them. I'll take some time to think about that.
5.1. It's really not that hard. Just run (straight) to the jumppad and keep your forward key pressed, that's all. At the jumpcurve which is the most far away from the centre, jump when your in the doorway just after you passed the first lava pool. It wasn't my intention to create some kind of "Quake 3 Arena Trickjump Escape" or something.
5.2. I designed this map for people which already are "a bit" experienced with the flow of Sauerbraten, but also for the real pros (so they still have some challenge to deal with, unlike most of the maps around now). That's why I started this map just at the centre of each base, the jumpcurve. This curve actually makes sure you won't get camped down easily (since your becoming a pretty fast flying object).
7. I hate big huge ass hallways, because there is actually no flow in it at all and everyone can make those. A good hallway should lead to another area (which is most of the time on another level of height), should be just wide enough so you can strafe in it and consists out of more paths (which are most of the time also on another height) to the same doorway.\

Damn, I know this map is still far away from finished...

0. The red texture on the structure leading to the flags is missing. The structure in the foreground of the bottom left screenshot.
2. The playermodel was just a side note. For my taste, it is too dark overall. To be more precise: I'd wish there'd be more brighter areas. Now if you look from some distance, it is mainly dark with some tiny white spots (the teleports). Note that this is a matter of taste, I'm a friend of the bright maps.
3. There's for example some medieval/gothic style statue near the structure where the texture is missing. It just stands there in the corner, next to this futuristic structure, serving no purpose and just not fitting well enough to provide better atmosphere. That's probably because this map already has a pretty mixed style/theme and some of the mapmodels are just too much for my(!) taste.
4. Sorry, I don't :(
5.1. Either I'm stupid or you did in fact create a trickjump escape ;) Probably best you let 5 players take the flag and if 4 survive, everything shoulb be ok and I should be stupid =)
5.2. I can see where you were going with this map. And I like it.
7. +1

Some countries in Europe work with another date-system (day-month-year)...

yeah, because the 30th month makes perfect sense.

Damn americans just had to create a new freaking measure for everything. Inches, yards, feet.. MM:DD:YYYY doesn't make sense! It just fucking confuses people when the DD isn't over 12. :|

I think it should just be YYYY-MM-DD, like how time is.. HH:MM:SS.

Blame the British.

I know the issue about the layout and I'm thinking more and more to use such program as gtkradiant to map around.

I know the lighting problem and it still needs to be fixed. I'm experimenting with it at the moment.

Thanks for notifying me about the particles, I'll change the colour at least...

Is not a problem of the editor (i'm understanding it now) is that sauerbraten is not Quake, is not UT.
Suicizer your maps have often a quake like layout, but a sauerbraten gameplay, wich produce contradiccion, like the central part of this map.

"I often make the same mistake cause i think in UT way and make non-sense in sauer".

I can't stop to say most played map are Reissen and Forge, and there is a reason, the layout fit the gameplay.
But i never seen maps like them, noticing the online players of thats maps this site should be full of clones...

Now, turning back to evil eart, when i say: "Is this map a light or a fireworks?" I mean:
This map have a new layout wich is a bet, it can be awesome and produce some great games, or simply be a fireworks, something wich is nice to see, but after some seconds it disapper.
Example: I have the flag and pick a teleport. You are following me and pick the same one. Or you will teleport in a sea of exploding granates, or you will see a 200 shotgun shot prior to die. But the map have a lots of teleport, so you can pick another one and try to caught me at the centre of the map. But also in the centre, there isn't a clear way/area (like in reissen) but it is a maze full of teleport... so its' the same.

Now i like to pick the flag an then lots of teleports, and i like the runs of this map. But i'm a fan of a layout like this:

And i like the pulseglow on the texure of the light. A very nice and well done detail.

Just like I said before, I'm thinking more and more about editing on gtkradiant.

The odd thing about that screenshot is, that the map once has been just like that. But I wanted something different, something which really makes this map original (and it does for sure). But it's a good idea and I'll think about it seriously.
My intention of those teleports are that you can use them as an advantage and suprise your opponent (like the teleport in that small window which leads you directly to 1 of the jumpcurves), or use them to trick you opponent and shoot them in the back (which happens if your opponent is just a mindless player).

P.S.
Really, I've asked this so many times already, how the hell do you add images directly into a comment? What's the command for it? Please do me a favour and don't send a link to the "compose tips" on Quadropolis, since it isn't helping me at all.

I was too lazy to find the code to show the brackets, so here's a pastebin link.
http://pastebin.com/Se6Asn2R

HTML

Have you ever read your link properly (or even my comment which I was saying NOT to guide me to the "compose tips" page)?
"No help provided for img"...

Is the html code, some tag are allowed in quadropolis.

For images:
1) do an image and save as jpg or png
2) upload it to an image hosting service, copy the direct link
3) in quadropolis type:
<img scr="www.direct.link.here.jpg">
4) optionally you can add other html parameters (google for "html img tag")
5) clik on Preview to see the result

To stay ot, Suicizer you are on IRC sometimes? I need an help to convert a model...

Thank you very much!
That's the key-answer I wanted to hear actually and why I started this content. I'll definitely take a look at pitch_black again (and should have done it in the time I was starting putting lights everywhere, since I really like pitch_black even it's not getting played often without any proper reason).
There aren't very much night-themed maps around, so it's pretty tough to understand it.
The main problem of the lighting in the map is it's night-themed but a mainly outside-based layout (which are 2 "challenges" at once of lighting).

Edit:
Now I'm confused since I also checked out alloy, because it has the same problems as I have :S. I'll try both ways...

Thanks for notifying me about the playerstarts.

About the jumppad and some decors, I was already busy with that, don't hurry me :P!

To be exactly, there are 4 teleports to each other's base (3 next to each other and the 1 in the cave) which are connected to 3 teledest around each base. I probably won't add a 4th teledest, because I'm fine with it just like it is now, but thanks for the suggestion.

You really should start sticking around on IRC more often, it's hard to contact you..

In my opinion :
"The cave shoulden't be consider a primary path, cause often you wash yourself in lava. (I'm not sure how to do the trick...)So in the primary paths there are 3 teleport and 2 teledest."
But is your map do what you fell not what others wants XD

Wait!

a) When trying the demo, it says "could not read package scectf2.ogz" and I would really like to see it as I still either jump directly into the lava or can reach the little hallway between the 2 lava basins and get out with rocket/nade jump...
b) Its great to see how much work you keep putting into this (and your others, too) map after posting it. Still, I don't see the lighting issue being improved, I'd like to have brighter lights. Much brighter lights. But, of course, that's a matter of taste.

More importantly:

c) I think you NEED to find a way to make these teleports as beginner/idiot-proof as possible. Read what eihrul said about his inclusion standards (not too many teleports/jumppads). And these ARE TOO MANY teleports. So you will have to find a way to either get rid of most of them, or (no idea if this would be sufficient, but maybe worth a try:) label them. Color-code them. Or put a screenshot of the destination next to them (or better: inside them).

a) I knew that problem would appear, that's why I added a link to a vid which seems to have a very low gamma (while it's normal to me when I run Sauerbraten).
Then I'll just create a demo in the SVN version, so it is compatible with each other.

b) I think the lighting will always be there problem here and sadly, I can't solve it now.

c) I didn't want to add screenshots on the teleports to show the destination again (since 2 other maps I've made already have this feature), but if it's necessary, then I'll do of course (it would fit the theme anyways).

Thanks for the video! In the overall ~25th run I managed to not fall into the lava. Once you know it, it's not that difficult, but people will suicide like lemmings there. I wonder what I am missing here: What's the point in there being lava in the first place? Why not water, bricks or sunflowers?

Look at the theme and it's damn name :P? How does sunflowers have to be evil?
But the question of why that cave exist is on my mind more and more often.
I'll will try to do 1 last make-over on the map and several improvements. If it's not good enough after that, so be it...

Trying to play dark maps in a bright room is not a good idea man, i speak from experience. My map nephthys is a night theme and a pain to see when the room is lit. :P

could not load texture packages/textures/yves_allaire/e6/evil6_lights/e6v_light.jpg
could not load texture packages/textures/yves_allaire/e6/evil6_lights/e6v_light_n.jpg
could not load texture packages/textures/yves_allaire/e6/evil6_lights/e6v_light_fx.jpg
could not load texture packages/textures/yves_allaire/e7/e7trim01_S.jpg
could not load texture packages/textures/yves_allaire/e6/evil6_lights/e6v_light.jpg
could not load texture packages/textures/yves_allaire/e6/evil6_lights/e6v_light_n.jpg
could not load texture packages/textures/yves_allaire/e6/evil6_lights/e6v_light_fx.jpg

Fixed!

Thanks for notifying.

could not load texture packages/textures/yves_allaire/e6/evil6_trims/e6metalfan.png

Fixed now, thanks for notifying again.

Another new update has arrived, it's really getting close to being finished now.

I just thought I'd let you know, I do plan on including evilness. I am just letting you finish making your tweaks to it before I put it in SVN. There's no rush anyway. :)

Well that's very nice to know and it would be an honour to have the map included into an official version of Sauerbraten.
I'm still adjusting things like reducing the lightmaps, sweaping out geometry mistakes, rechecking the gameplay, but should be done soon enough.
I'll probably announce it in the content's name like "finished" or "very last update", but I'll just comment it in #sauerbraten on IRC too...

It appears mediafire is having problem, download links also aren't working for me in firefox. Surprisingly, IE still works, so if you're on windows try that.

I have no problems at all and I'm on windows and using Firefox?

Well, try this one instead?

That link works, thanks. I'll have a look at your map later.

Well, updated again so the link in my previous comment is an outdated map. Be sure to use the normal download link instead.

I just noticed in svn your map has a mapmodel missing.

In the "jump-pad chamber" of the red base, there's three chains supporting the platform in the centre, whereas the blue base has four.

Might want to fix that, it could unbalance things drastically.
;P

Thats just in case you are color blind, you will know which base you are in.

Well, thanks anyways for notifying it. Anything else to comment about?

It is a mapmodel, because it would be impossible to make such detail currently on Cube Engine 2 (especially the texturing of it).

I understand your getting confused from the texture-palette. What happened? Optimizing the file-size by removing unused textures, that's what happened ;). It's not the intention after all that the config of the map will be used for any other new creations (you are still free to do so). You could better use the config-files of the full texture-packs for that.
Listening to several comments about your content is a though job but sometimes pays back, doesn't it?

Understandable, and yes indeed.

*TOO

Also, the map is still being actively updated and the lighting has been reviewed again to be less dark. Which renders your points moot.

As for the changelogs, eh. He could use a pastebin or at least group them to monthly-updates to cut some space free.

Read left to do. Removing the teleports will be done in the next (and probably very last) update of the map.
There definitely is a reason to take another path, because the catwalk is a pretty common spawn place
for your opponent. Next to that, keep in mind the weakness of teleports - camping. It's pretty easy to secure that teledestination, even by just launching some grenades into the chamber.

P.S.
Nah, it won't be the most picked up health entity of Sauerbraten, as you need to slow down to actually grab it when you're coming from the flag's position.

Maybe you are confused right now. Most maps presented nowadays are pretty bright and daylight themed. The only maps which actually share a similar theme about the atmosphere is tortuga, twinforts and fc4. Yet they don't share the same theme, which is gothic. You can't expect that it will be in daylight again as it once was, because it simply doesn't fit the theme. I've brightened once and won't do so again. The atmosphere should actually be darker but then again, it won't be that easily to see. This is as a better mapper which I'll ever be stated, a limit of the game engine.

P.S. putting on glare helps also a lot.

Dark maps are best played in a dark room. Simple logic.

And comon now, 2/10 just because it is dark? he started working this map in this style long before there was this wave of dark maps.

If you had read his comment you would have seen that he doesn't rate it 2/10 because there already are other dark maps, but beause it simply is way too dark. As long as Sauerbraten doesn't come with a feature to only play such dark maps when everyone's room is dark (might be difficult around the world) I also don't like such dark maps. It's annoying to have to put /gamma 200 everytime such a map comes up. With such dark maps, appearance (negatively) affects gameplay, and if a map is hardly playable because it is close to pure black on normal conditions (daylight in room, monitor brightness set to average or average monitor set to full brightness) and if this is also intended as it is the case here, then one must live with a 2/10 rating.

The map WAS dark and is not so blatantly dark anymore. If he seriously has trouble seeing now (the copy included in the svn, which is more up to date), then i think he should either see a doctor about his eyes or change to a monitor that doesn't rely on external lighting to be seen.

I'm not going to argue about non-calibrated monitors set to maximum brightness. If it is as dark as Tortuga I'll just put /gamma 160 the few times the map is going to be played (few times, because players unaware of the gamma setting will leave) and enjoy the map. But don't blame people giving low ratings because they want maps to be playable in the form they are provided.

i blame people who have not experienced dark games and bitch about dim-lit maps.

Mappers can't and shouldn't relay on the external brightness. I think a pitch-black room with no lights except the monitor gives the best results as there are no other effects as the brightness of the monitor itself.

Mappers can't and shouldn't rely on the external darkness. I think a pitch-black room with no lights except the monitor is not an assumption a mapper should make when choosing the brightness of a map (given the fact that there is direct sunlight 50% of the day in average and skylight way longer, plus most rooms are equipped with artificial lighting).

I'm starting to feel like I should close this node, as it's pointless to discuss off-topic statements...

P.S. Even if I will make it brighter (yet again), the change won't be included till next release.

I know that it is too late to change it. That's why I told you before the new release.
Feel free to stop commenting on off-topic (wondering when lighting became off-topic) statements any time.