Slow progress in maps is low. There are indeed fewer good mappers, but that doesn't mean all of them are inactive. Most of the recent projects going on are quire large and take time to complete and finalize.

How about starring more scripts ;D I think there are only two starred at the moment.

I agree with RaZgRiZ, although the other three options are valid and to some extent true I think this community still has life to it. I also hope in the future when I have time to finish them to submit more maps on here and hopefully get good feedback. I really appreciate all the feedback I get here.

a) Imho, the maps being created are getting larger and larger. This, of course, takes more time to finish, some project might even get canceled after weeks of work.
-> Do not create only massively huge iCTF maps for 20 players or more.

b) Nearly all great maps do not get included in the game, so some people might lose incentive to create something good after a while.
-> Include more innovative new maps with solid gameplay (and get rid of outdated maps on the basis of gameplay considerations - not optics - if necessary).

c) Maps are created with the focus on graphics. This is surely not a bad thing in principle, but it takes way more time until a map is considered up to standards. Over this, mappers seem to forget about good gameplay. Thus we get a lot of maps which make us think "Oh, beautiful map, I wanna lok at this" when instead we should get maps making us think "Don't care how it looks, I NEED TO PLAY THIS, IT IS AWESOME!"
-> Focus more on gameplay instead of polished looks. Realistic themes often don't get along well with good gameplay.

Edit: Just noticed that's actually not an answer to the question, sorry for that little drift away from the topic.

i say the community is dead because you can tell most people moved to other games such as minecraft which is sad because minecraft is such a crappy game. in my opinion cube 2 games need more advertisement, particularly the map editor which many people who play sauerbraten or red eclipse don't even know that it exists.

I think it's like Jorge already commented, the maps are getting bigger and bigger (probably because the servers take every release a bigger maximum amount of players), but also because maps have to keep being original and above all, out-dating the previous maps (so like better details, lighting, geometry, putting the stamp of the theme even deeper in the map, etc).
You could see it as a constant progress to put maps to perfection (which will never be reached after all).
Another factor which plays around is the limitations of the engine. You can't make complex shapes (easy and/or not time-consuming) with the engine, even if you would like to. Of course this would give a challenge for a beginning mapper, but after several years, it could get frustrating to more experienced mappers.
I also noticed many "skilled" mappers which were active in the past, just aren't on quadropolis anymore but they still are being part of the community by showing of maps to Nieb or Eihrul.

To Jorge,
Why the hell did you think I'm announcing the Cubic Mapping Event? To make sure people aren't spending a lot of time on details to get something "smooth" and "round".

But let's stop being off-topic...
The fact that starred content also are competing each other, is also very noticeable. Take for example the map "SauerFlauer", which I released several years ago. I'm pretty sure if I would release it just right now again, people would still "like" it, but that's it, nothing more.
Another factor which depends if a content get starred is the mood of the person who makes it starred and if he likes the content or not. I'm pretty sure if the guy had a great day and checks out a content, that content has more chance of getting starred than when that person had a messed up day.

To Chaos,
I think scripts should be starred yes, but they need to be really usefull, not just some "mastercontrol" or "pretty screenshot" script. Take for example the "Sauer Enhanced" content of Q009, which was after a while more a mod than a script tough.

I would say that the community is not dead, it's only slower these days. And yes i do still some mapping, and perhaps i should post some doodles here, several unfinished maps based on a single set of textures.

Oh and minecraft is not a crappy game, it goes to show that flashy, shiny bumpmapped graphics on itself do not make a game addictive. Its a excellent sandbox game, play it as you like.

I have another hypothesis: the community is getting slower because we already have so many good maps. This slowdown isn't something that happened just now. Right now, the number of maps on Quadropolis is increasing 2,000.

Sometimes this makes people think: "Why should I make more maps when there are hundreds of great maps out there that I haven't played yet?". But I think the main consequence is our standards getting really high. First of all this means that maps will be less likely to be starred or given high votes. I think the list was edited recently (a map called "c_mansion" was definitely there before) so looking at the previous starred maps might not be the best way to judge, but in both the starred list and the Best Content list you can tell that older maps were favoured more. This is just my opinion, but why aren't newer maps like Catch22, Brass, Arbana, Teahupoo, Scedm5, Euphoria, Asgard, Renegade, Detroit, DarkRemains, Convent, Subterra, Krypton, and my favorite map of all, the amazingly beatiful, astroundingly huge, extremely difficult (depending how often you use editmode or the portal gun;) ) COOPRACE starred?

I think the best way to tell that this is the case is to look at the comments. Negative comments and occasional flamewars are everywhere, even in the best of maps nowadays. But if you look back a couple years, you will see the atmosphere was a lot friendlier and more generous with votes. I'm not saying that people are less constructive though, in fact it's probably the opposite.

Also, the high standards here have made it a less pleasant atmosphere for noobs. Our policy for new mappers is "go edit on your own for a while, study the great masterpieces, and come back when you have a professional map done, and if you're lucky and have a really flexible schedule you can get into an editing clan."

I'm not totally sure how to fix the last problem, but I think something should be dome about it. There's already and editing reference at the Sauerbraten Docs, but maybe we should expand that since it only covers the engine basics, and I haven't found too many ones about more complicated ideas.

And by the way, Suicizer, when you said that Overdrive had flags outside the map, did you mean in the old version where they were on the roof? When I updated it I put them behind a barrier in the corners of the complex, behind where players exit the "spawn rooms" but still very much a inside the map, and you can access the flags several ways. I guess now they're more out-of-the-way though.

EDIT: Actually, I found some nice tutorials here by our old texture friend, Lunaran. Maybe we should have a link to this in the editing reference. Still, it would be nice to have more resources easily available to newbies.

To Jorge >
"a) Imho, the maps being created are getting larger and larger. This, of course, takes more time to finish, some project might even get canceled after weeks of work.
-> Do not create only massively huge iCTF maps for 20 players or more."

Definitely o.O, even I have some serious maps that I want to get released but can never finish them. Although we have better technology now and people can buy or make improved computers with faster gfx, processor etc. many of us lack the money, time, or motivation to do these things. I myself can say the same because i have a 6yr old Compaq with Vista HP x32, 4gb of Memory, and less than 1gb of INTEGRATED graphics. That's pretty gay if you ask me, I have to turn down all my settings in game AND close all other programs otherwise it freezes. I may not be able to make such big maps if i dont have as good as a computer to use to make/play on it. Nevertheless, this is absolutely true for many of us. :P

To Suicizer >

"4) I once said it before and I'll say it again. The map mirrors the playing style of the mapper and it's experience. If a mapper likes to play on open and camp-sensitive maps, he probably won't create a map which has a more aggressive gameplay (so guess which mines is :P) and if he doesn't knows how to blendmap, you probably won't find any of it in his or hers maps. There are exceptions on this of course.
But your right about that most mappers don't know what a good gameplay and flow takes, that's why I discourage "detail-mapping" clans nowadays (but I respect their work).
*) It's not a bad idea to get pro players more active to maps on quadropolis (like for testing), but I'm sure there are many skilled mappers who doesn't need those pro players after all, since they've played the game for several years by themselves."

Indeed, there are fewer good mappers on, but thats not to say there aren't that many pro players. There are certainly a bunch of noobs and noob clans being created as a result of this. I strongly agree with your point about mappers and their fighting experience. I believe that you can't truly be good at editing if you don't play on the servers every once in a while, and vice-versa. This game has basic, but flexible features, making it easy for newbies to catch on to becoming experts.

Another good point. If you ask me, If you had 2 people, one was a pro fighter and the other an expert editor, and they were to both make a map (assuming this would be a playable map to be in the official release), I would find the player's map to have more flow and consistency than the mapper's, whether or not it has great details. The player has experience and would know what current maps are like and how they should be made, he would spend his time wisely on creating an environment that actually works, not just making up some art gallery with fancy geometry and blended textures, know what I'm saying? :O

I run Tech Republic, a clan that stresses the importance of both skills because I've seen people in the past that haven't met up to our requirements because they rarely play online or their editing styles weren't unique. So you know the type of things that I look for. Therefore, to answer the question more directly, Fewer good mappers do lead to fewer good maps in a way, but the community is not dying do to a lack of good players. And thus, here is my answer in comment form.

My two cents. People spend too much time being critical about the same things, over and over.
People are setting their standards to something that is hard to achieve, which doesn't even need to be achieved.

Gameplay ---

A map 'Can Be' too small and too tight, and it 'can be' too large and too open to play nicely, but most often this is not the case.
People bitch about bad gameplay and flow about maps where it really isn't the issue. The issue lies with people wanting every map to play exactly like the last. They want to be able to speed through with chubby fingers and clumsily navigate the entire map without smacking into any walls. Might as well not include any new maps in the game if that's the case.

Every map is different and should play differently. The way a specific map plays may be to the distaste of some people, but that is life, and the very reason why there are so many others to enjoy.
I'll admit, there are maps where the flow is absolute crap due to collision issues and a few parts being very poorly placed, but that is generally the only reason.

The game is fast pace, which 'generally' means fairly large maps with wide corridors, but by no means are people limited to that. The map 'Venice' has tons of tight areas that people navigate with ease, so why can't they do it elsewhere?

Visuals ---

Detail is NOT a necessity. Nobody gives a damn if a map only uses three different textures, as long as it looks like it's supposed to be that way and doesn't leave more to be desired of the given theme.
It's not about the geometric detail, or the amount of textures you use, or the number of light sources. It's about choosing a visual style and applying it to the map in a convincing manor; in a way that it does not look out of place, or incomplete. A large map doesn't need to take six months to finish if the mapper decides to go with a simpler theme rather than complete realism. Simplicity is attractive to many.

---

Mappers don't need to have a mastery of the engine to make great maps. Many of the maps in the game are incredibly basic on a number of levels, yet still enjoyable. As suicizer said above, "The map mirrors the playing style of the mapper and their experience."
There are tons of players, all with their own styles, and many people create maps in their own image. I know I do.

The problem is that the mapping community is shooting itself in the foot. Quadropolis built mappers from the ground up, but now tries to operate at a level of sophistication that does not allow mappers to get feedback and grow. As has been said, new mappers are shoved away when they want community and feedback. Its standards are too high and simultaneously the wrong standards. I have a rough set of standards which I apply to maps for inclusion, which are really a balance of many aspects. If you only focus on one of the aspects, to the neglect of another one, the map is unlikely to get included. If you do a passable attempt at all of them, the map is likely to get included, even if it is not amazing. The bar is not amazing, the bar is balance. They are:

1) Performance. If the map is 400K verts because you spammed lots of little details everywhere, it is probably not getting included. 200K is more or less a sane top-end for big Hallo-sized maps. Spamming lots of water planes is almost always a no-no, especially in combination with spamming lots of geometry, since they multipled eachother. Try to stick to at most 1 water-plane in view at any one time.

2) Texturing. Texturing matters not just for appearance, but so the player can actually see where the hell they are going. I'm not trying to single anyone out, but if I am handed a map with very complex flow, and all hallways look the same because it's one solid gray mass or a such a noisy mass of random textures that I can't remember a pattern to them as I am running by, then the flow of the map has become more theoretical than actual. And, well, neither looks nice either. I may as well be running through a dark and twisty maze only to be eaten by a grue. :)

3) Lighting. The comments for texturing above apply to lighting, though with some slight difference. Too much noisy lighting with lots of different technicolor lights or almost-moire-pattern shadows from competing lights can make it hard to see and it just looks ugly. Even a simple sunlight with some skylight with some occasional accent lighting can be good enough for a lot of maps. Most people just try too hard here.

3) Geometry. I am actually rather forgiving of blocky detail, and people tend to overfocus on geometric detail to a fault. Spamming lots of noisy detail really tends to make maps look worse in general, and actually detracts from nice texturing and lighting, especially the texturing. You need to work with the cubes, not against them. Large details tend to work better than small ones, especially because at the pace people run around in Sauer your small detailing will mostly be ignored as people run by like cheetahs. Let the textures do the small detail.

4) Particles. Don't spam them. Sometimes particle spam can work in the right context, but usually it just looks a bit lame. It's not a deal breaker, but never the less, lame.

5) Mapmodels. Same caveats as spamming lots of small geometry detail.

6) Flow. Cramped tunnel systems or cramped hallways are bad. Too much verticality is bad. Too many teleports is bad. Too many jumppads are bad. Too open is bad (especially in CTF and capture), less so for FFA. Too many twists and turns is bad. The most popular FFA layout in Sauer seems to remain a hole with a ledge around it (complex). I think people overthink this one a lot as well.

7) Items. I think common sense mostly reins here, and that it is rare for people to really screw this up badly. Make sure items are available at appropriate frequencies according to their benefits. It is perfectly okay to omit the quad and health boosts and yellow armour in a map if you don't like their effect on gameplay for your map too, but generally all other items should be present. Quads/health boost/yellow armour very rare. Green armour kinda rare. Rockets/chaingun should be used judiciously. Shotgun/rifle/grenades a bit more available than rockets/chaingun. Health to taste. Pistol cartridges should only be placed only to insult/spite the player, but are not terribly useful.

8) Clipping. Usually I end up going in and fixing this myself on almost all included maps, but people never clip their maps adequately, so that the poor baby kittens escape and fall off the map and die. Save the kittens.

9) File size. The Sauerbraten download size is already big. Many people still have shit connections, and even if they don't, a huge download makes it less likely for impulse downloaders to try out the game because it will still take a long time to download. I don't care if you think otherwise. The download is not increasing 20MB for an FFA map, and even 5MB will make me skeptical. For 5MB, your map must be pure unadulterated awesome-sauce, like, better than almost every other map in the game. Smaller file size maps that are less a hindrance on the total package size are more likely to be included.

Many good points in the comments. I personally like the smaller maps as I seldom have access to a high speed Internet connection (I live in Australia, where only the CBD's of the major cities have any real connectiviy, most of the rest of us are stuck with modems and telephone lines.)

Likewise, I can get together a few friends to play on a LAN, but massive games over the Internet are largely out of the question.

It is a similar situation with computer power. I have a reasonable graphics card on my main machine, but the rest of my machines are a bit dated. Heavy rendering, e.g. maps with large areas of water will slow game play to a crawl.

Smaller and lighter is better.

Many good points were mentioned above. But you forgot one:
A map only shows its quality by being played.
So the thing I believe is, that Sauerbraten needs an open server where the new maps that are uploaded at quadropolis can be played.
This would in my opinion create comments how the maps feel, when being played.
As I mentioned before my name on Sauerbraten is "nothing" (why it has not been changed on quadropolis although I claimed for that.........?), and some of you may know the "maplounge" that I am involved in. Well we have many of the maps out of quadropolis in there. And we really enjoy to play them, and when new people do connect to maplounge we often get asked: "When will there be a next release?" Sure eihrul wants to release only maps of good quality, but still I think let the quality be shown in gameplay. Start a server with quadropolis maps, shown public on master server, and let Gamers be part of decision.

PS.: I know that I am not a big star in mapping, but I enjoy and think improvement has to be encouraged. So let people get part, and pick out the pearls.

Sounds good if you use IRC Suicizer. But even if you know about that chance, how great is the chance that you realize it on IRC that a playtesting is done?
Still I think: Let people play new maps, and if statistics show which maps are favorized just include them to new releases.
Whats wrong with giving Gamers fun and making choice of maps easier?
And besides no one is ever forced to play on an outside of release server. But seldom: every time we begin to play maplounge with more than 6 players, people rush in and I assume 20% of them enjoy to load the package and often do come back for playing.
Not that I wanna force you to do so eihrul, but maybe its worth to think of, if this could encourage mappers to upload stuff. And maybe some pearls would come out of it.
Hoping to have given an input worth of thinking about, sincerely yours: "nothing"