Config, textures and other catastrophes

iCrab | 2010-11-27 09:42

I just want to straighten this out. When I go through the official Sauerbraten maps (also most of the ones you make on quad) I see a config file with tons of texture assignments. Is all of that really necessary?
Here's my point: When I made my maps in the past, I'd just use textures from the slot, modified them with vscroll, vscale and voffset whenever the need was there. To me it seems much simpler than writing a dozen lines of code every time I start a new map. By the time I've finished locating the directory of those textures I want (not to mention writing those down), I might've already changed my mind about the theme -.-
Now some people have told me that a config is necessary for official Sauerbraten maps, some tell me it isn't. Most aren't sure at all. The only thing I've used a config for up until now is to add sounds, my own textures or to name bases.
So, my question is: What other gain do I get from typing a whole config besides learning about configs? Because that alone doesn't seem to be worth it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I've heard a rumor that there would be some script which is supposed to write all used textures/models/ other assets into the config automatically? Now that would be dope, since it would save us all a great deal of work.
Thanks in advance.

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Zaaikort | 2010-11-27 10:14

Here's what I think about a complete map config file:

1) It is not really necessary.
2) It makes it very easy to replace or modify items without recalculating the map.
3) It keeps you out of trouble when the standard Sauer package is slightly changed between editions. (Happened to me once, I had to change my config in some way to fix it.)
4) It enables you to make a map version that loads only the used items, might save memory (and startup time, if you disable the default config).

Locating all textures afterwards is nasty job, it is simpler to put every item in your map config as soon as you decide to use (or just try) it.

RaZgRiZ | 2010-11-27 11:29

that is the problem. to setup a config for a map means that you are absolutely sure which textures you will use, something which is a major case for most mappers who are unsure what theme their map will be.

as far as i can understand, sauer assigns numbers to surfaces that correspond to the texture browser's slots. if it were to assign paths instead of slots, then you could use the texturereset command to clear the browser of anything unnecessary, possibly generating the map cfg, if that is achievable through this, saving time and patience.

Windecker | 2010-11-27 12:58

You need to realize that the Vcommands were only implemented in the latest version of Sauerbraten. ( trooper )

I have a map with a config well over 1200 lines. Now I can do the same thing in Sauer without a config at all.

Tho, with a config, you can load specific texture instead, and prevent errors if the texture list gets modified in a future release ( via texture reset, and manual loading. )

It simply depends what you are doing, and what you need done.

Suicizer | 2010-11-29 17:50

You cant do all mapping options without an individual map-configuration, even after justice-edition...

Examples of this are:

-Setshadercommands (like "decalworld", "bumpworld", "envworld", "parallaxworld", "pulseworld" and "specworld" (any combinations of these aren't available to edit without map-configuration file either), but it's true "glowworld" can be replaced by using the "vcolor" command)

-Costum shader commands, like the "moviescript"-shader, wich is officially used at the rocketlauncher that's in assassin edition.

-Using your own costum textures, wich fit your theme and mapgeometry better than any other texture inside the official Sauerbraten.

As far as I know, it can't hurt to make your own default map-configuration and use it for several maps that you create. Like the texture-configs wich are included inside the "evil" texture-packs. They just make you only have to press "/exec packages/yves_allaire/evil8/package.cfg" and you can use them anytime in your map!

If you make geometry, gameplay and flow first anyways, than you don't have to worry for texturing yet at the start of a map. Of course, it's not a bad thing to start with putting a theme on your map when gameplay and flow are finished. Then you can always adjust the geometry so textures, lighting and detail can take place in the map either.
Like already said in a comment before this one, it happens a lot that the default texturepallet gets adjusted, wich fucks up maps that haven't made it into the next official version of Sauerbraten...

skiingpenguins | 2010-11-27 14:50

kind of like what windecker said, sauerbraten uses map configs to maintain compatibility with newer releases. trooper got new textures, but the order wasnt change. if the order was change, and your map had no config, your textures would all be in the wrong spot.

map configs also load only the textures you need, instead of the entire default set. this gives you better map loading times. i believe this would also reduce ram usage also.

i think RedEclipse (Cube 2 Mod) has that map config writing thing, but i am not sure.

have a nice day

Windecker | 2010-11-27 17:09

On a note: A fair time back, I think it was Quaker, he wrote some code for me to automatically generate a config based on texture usage within a map.

Also, ( as far as I know ) when you load a map, Sauerbraten will only load textures that are in use. It is fairly evident, when you see it take longer on maps with more textures, and when you look in the texture browser. Textures in use are already visible, the rest appear in order, one by one.

iCrab | 2010-11-27 17:15

I would appreciate it if you could get your hands on that code... or anyone else... on any other code...

Windecker | 2010-11-27 17:42

I'm afraid it's on one of the drives on my old machine. I don't know which one, and one of the drives is dead.

iCrab | 2010-11-27 16:57

Thanks.
So what would you advice me to do if I was creating a ctf map, landscape's already done and one house. Total number of used textures estimated at about 10 until now. Used 1 vscroll, a great deal of vscale and vcolor. (Changing vthingies is still possible after assigning textures via config, right?)
Would it still make sense to add a config and try my luck with the replace command?

Zaaikort | 2010-11-27 20:31

Yes.

iCrab | 2010-11-29 11:08

Okay, this will be actually the first time I'm configuring textures. I've been doing some reading on the editing reference and I think I'm ready to do it. But:
What will happen to the original textures once the texturereset command is executed? How do I make sure that once I have written the config (as far as used textures are concerned) all my previous texturing won't be all messed up or set to one texture? Do I have to follow a specific order while assigning textures via config?

RaZgRiZ | 2010-11-29 12:34

once you use /texturereset, all assigned textures will turn to texture errors, since the game won't be able to trace them back to the slots in the texture browser. then these slot values will be clamped to their nearest neighbor (15 28 3 -? 0 1 2) in order. if you know which textures the map uses in order they are loaded in the texture browser, you can add them to the config and keep the textures (probably). otherwise you'll have to retexture the whole place.

Zaaikort | 2010-11-30 00:05

iCrab,
Your shiny new very own config file can have any order you like.
Retexturing the whole place won't be necessary!
You already said it: use the replace command, ten times.
Carefull: in case you accidentally make two textures the same they can't be separated again. (Backup the map first!) A temporary extra texture (last in the list) will help you avoid this, a bit like the empty space in a sliding block puzzle or a shunt puzzle.

After the operation it is still possible to browse the default set: just load it _after_ your own list, for the occasion.

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