Yeah, I agree, the fog is a bit too much. Maybe a little bit less, otherwise this map is an amazing piece of art.

keep it up!
5/5

12 and 15 seconds after searching for a perfect path.

well, problems: the map has to much ways that wont be used at all. dont try to keep the layout of the skycastle map that much, build something that works for ctf. means 2 good bases and sensefull ways, maybe a building in the center. also the fog is to much, but thats just a small thing.

4/5, because its a great art-map, but its gameplay isnt that fine.

My email address should be right in the map's readme, 3d line, in the downloaded zip.

i actually attempted to redo skycastle myself... but you know that saying, "sh** happens".

i actualy ment the licenses of the original map, but it seems its got "untitled map by unknown" at ctf edition, and no "skycastle.txt" or "read-me-skycastle" at the map...
ill check if theres something in older releases and on quadro...

For licensing, he got permission, and there IS the official sky castle on quad, and it has been worked on since the last version of sauer.

i probably looked over it then =s. my fault :P!

I actually had strong jumppads instead of teleports for most of the construction of the map (after I deleted the huge fountain which was still in the early stages of the map). I switched to teleporters in the end because no matter what I tried, I was not able to create a launching and landing area for the player on those small towers. It always felt too awkward. I will try again with jumppads, but it will probably remain the way it is now.

As for the large towers in front of the castle, in CTF they are indeed rather pointless, but I feel that in other modes they could be useful. I have already eliminated the dock thing in front of the map , possibly what you were referring to, as it had no real value.

Expect an update sometime this week.

nice idea, can i try it 2, on skycastle (so actualy helping u ;P)?

i think it wouldnt be that good 2 use at gameplay, because its just like a maze, what decreases the gameplay (ur going 2 be more busy with figuring out how 2 get somewhere, then killing ur enemy). further, even if this map will be played with an ammount of 24+ players, this map would get as campy as hell (what even more decreases the gameplay). even tuogh the flow isnt that bad, its just that the map is a maze, that ruins it =s.
i would think to keep it an artistic map, and if it would be added into a next release, i would add it just like old skycastle, into the "concept" tab.

It doesn't ruin it, with camping people you can employ strategy and move about and take them out. It adds to the fun. And once you play the map a few times, its no longer like a maze.

camping most times (like if 70% of all players that r playing in the map) decreases the effeciency of the gameplay from a map. camping is done much on capture the flag, but because of that activity its gettting "camp at the flag" or "camp between the flags". Thats why i disagree with u that a map should be based with a gameplay where camping is allowed, without getting punished 4 it.

furhter, ive played classic skycastle not that much (most times in ctf and assasin edition) but as far as i can remember, it stays pretty much a 3D maze, because of the teleports and jumppads.

""disagree with u that a map should be based with a gameplay where camping is allowed"" I never said that... READ my post prehaps? I said that with campers ( On the Other team ) you are forced to Employ STRATEGY which CAN or MAY lead to better or more interesting game play.
Also, how much does efficiency matter? There are already a hundred maps made to be efficient for movement, so how bout some where the focus is on strategic game play, rather than just running and shooting?

On this map, yes, there are many places for campers, but there are also multiple routes to these places, and there is no way a camper can cover the area in front, beside, and above him/herself at once. Therefor, with some practice you can drop down on them or get them from behind. Also, there are SO many places to shoot from on this map, if you spot somebody hiding somewhere before they see you, then you could probably snipe em out from halfway across the map. SO, instead of everybody complaining, THINK. People get pissed off because they get gunned down every time they go down a path because of the dreaded camper, so why not find another path? Navigate around a little, and shoot him in the back of the head.

And with players playing like that ^^ It causes the opposing team to change tactics, which may lead to your team changing tactics, and so on and so forth; it can really spice up game play.
Now, go ahead and say "your wrong" because I truly don't care, Ill just go on sneaking up behind you and shooting you in the back.

u dont have 2 say it litturly, but the meanings r the same, arent they :P?

btw, at "probably snipe em out", u know ur camping at that moment to then, dont u?

What the hell? Sniping somebody out is camping? I don't think you even know what camping means.

CAMPING - Staying in one place for a prolonged amount of time.

It only takes 3 seconds or less to find a target and shoot it, sniping is referring to doing so over a distance. THINK ABOUT IT.

thats ur opinion, but 4 me camping is if u kill people from a tactical advantaged area against the area of ur opponent. As example, u frag at spawnspots, doorways or hills. That pretty much people stay at a tactical advantaged area, is called camping (u most times wont c a player stay fragging at an area with a disadvantaged area against the area of their opponent, because the most times die then).

Actually such places in the maps are referred to as power points. Its an area where with cover or not, you have an advantage over the other in terms of fragging.
But camping is another matter, camping means staying in a place, without moving out of it, and killing everyone. (of course if a person sitting in such a place always returns there you can call him a camper)

But no, everyone roams the map in different aspects, not everyone wants to jump around like an idiot in a large scaled map. Its a suicide run! So usually people who can't cope with close combat or combat in wide open areas such these courtyards in this map prefer to roam in high spots with cover and rifle ammo. That doesn't necessarily make them campers.. Of course if they are caught off guard up on their sniper spots they are dead meat. SO why would anyone accuse someone for camping who is just roaming on the upper floors of the map with rifle ammo in hand? If high spots or places with advantage are places for someone to camp then stop mapping altogether or make a totally flat map with no heighted cover to avoid camping, this way you also avoid making any tactical advantage areas for people to use.. Otherwise you can start roaming the map yourself and find your own ways into fragging the others, from below or from sky high. its your choice.

My 2 cents for this nonsense disagreement

Oh and suic, do get a feel of things, if everyone was really equal in a map while in a duel, or ctf or capture mode, then things would get really boring. These kind of maps are known as "SYMMETRICAL". But if the map has a really good design and layout like tejen, then this isn't a problem. (Tejen also has a ton of camping spots but i never really heard anyone complaining about it.. did you?)

Razgriz, you nailed it dead on. Thank You!

then u got just whats not camping: running, its not 4 nothing capture the flag!
furhter, maps like tejen (or reissen) shouldnt be played with that much camping as its happening atm.
(am i actually the only 1 here that can connect camping, to a bad and ruining gameplay? if u agree with this, plz read http://book.hourences.com/bookgameplay.htm first then).

off topic?

I have no clue what your saying... but you wont let it go, so I will.

You think that camping ruins gameplay, fine, thats ok with me. Now go on and find a game that camping never occurs. WE ALL MOAN when we see a camper, but we can't really do anything.

But i agree on this: you run to capture the flag in ctf mode. but i also disagree because someone has to protect the home flag as well. So they "camp", moving around the flag's whereabouts, scouting for enemies and guarding it. I can imagine you in a situation like this yelling out "FUCKING CAMPERS!" when killed.

and if you can prevent people from "camping" in maps like tejen and reissen then go on and do it. otherwise live with it

that's all and i'm out of this argument. its getting tiring..

there r different ways to defend. As example, u can defend no an active and unactive way. at the active way, u cover the flagholder (or ur own team) and try 2 kill the flagholder of the enemies team, when they captured the flag. at the unactive way, u stay more in some areas and wait till the enemy appear by itself (so similar to camping).

it r both effectiv ways to defend, but of course, the active way of defending is more fun 4 all players and not only the defender (no1 actually likes to die).

ok now this goes even further

do you even listen do yourself when you type all this? Of course the active way is protecting the flagholder that took the enemy flag. That is natural, but actually guarding a specific area of the map and not roaming around like an idiot shooting things is camping? This conversation has me frustrated and i better not talk further cause i might insult somebody (especially you)

I'll stop now and hope you do the same or people will have to take actions for this issue here, and i don't want trouble..

Ending this discussion.. Any further comments or arguments about camping and its definition will be censored. These comments are in no way helpful to the author of the map and have a more productive place to be said. So.. Say them there, not here.

A waypoint file would be a nice touch. Since Sauerbraten doesn't offer an easy download of missing maps on connection to server, maps that aren't in the release don't get played much already. So the audience is limited to those individuals who have downloaded the map from Quadropolis and have good enough computers to run it at a reasonable framerate.

As a result, most games played on this map will probably not have a lot of players - so some bots to fill out the vast environment would help. Being able to play a bot match solo is always convenient as well.

I downloaded this the other day and noticed the incorrect packaging. Firstly, you have a top-level "skycastle-r" directory under which you have "packages"; this should be in the root of the zip instead. Then there's the big no-no... __MACOSX directories and .DS_Store .files littered throughout the zip; this is bad mojo. You actually need to *read* the Packaging Guide, not just assume you've done it right.

Other than that, it's a very beautiful map, and it served as a good example of what Cube 2 can do for my house-mate.

That did the trick, thanks :)

I hope to see this map in game too.