Palace Gardens | Quadropolis

Garak | 2009-07-02 06:24

Palace Gardens

[

146

points ]

(17 votes)

Starred Content

Blurb A map for CTF or other game modes. (Version 3)

Screenshot Palace Gardens

Get original file (101KB)

Detailed description

This map was designed for CTF but should work for other game modes as well. An vaguely Eastern architectural style was the goal. Comments are welcome!

7/5/2009: Version 2 has been uploaded. Notable changes:
-PVS culling is used, which has dramatically increased the framerate in many areas. However, the framerate is still kind of low in a few areas on some computers that I tested the map on. On my computer, turning down the water quality increased the fps from 29 to 55 in one area.
-The quad damage and the health boost are both much more hidden and hard to get now.
-The jump pads from the underground area to the surface have been replaced with stairways (except in the center of the map)
-The lighting has been tweaked all over.
-Small texture changes, including not having steel column bases.
I kept the sniping areas, such as the roofs near the entrances to the garden, since I don't think campers would be safe there with the four towers in the vicinity. Again, thanks for the comments!

7/7/2009: Version 3 (Minor Update)
-Fixed spawn points and moved around a few things (such as making access easier to the flags)

Map file palacegardens.zip (2.07 MB)

Rating

146

points

(17 votes)

Comments

raz0or | 2009-07-02 14:20

Perfect map !
Looks good :)

RaZgRiZ | 2009-07-02 14:30

the map geometry and textures are very nice. this map is great for CTF
but my only complaint is that the healthboost and quad are too easy to reach in that well

4/5 :)

oh and what is all this nonsense in the readme file? :S

Suicizer | 2009-07-03 23:32

first i wanna say, nice map :D!

further, the map seems to got a nice detail that actually get boosted much by the lightning (so lightning is k ;D!). you could add more details by using cominations in gridding, what could create dept in a texture. Further u can replace some texture to, cause they actualy dont really fit (like that steel plate texture on sum pillars, as example).
The gameplay of the map, it seems its got a nice flow, but i think if u wanna play ctf on it, u get same problem as most new maps (that r pretty open like urs), camping. Gameplay gets much improved if a map got a balance between open and closed. so for now, this map seems to have a slight drag to "open" on that bar :P. 1 pluspoint is u tried u got positioned camperspots (like the 1 on the roof of a playerstart, just be4 flag) what makes it better 2 deal with campers. 1 minpoint is the camperplaces on the mainroof, cause they got tactical a 2 high advantage against other areas, so u should make it more viewable for opponents if sum1 camps there, or just remove it (thats my opinion, cause it doesnt fits to the theme =s).
i think u should (no)clip some parts to.

anyways nice map :D! i give 60 points now, plz fix those points and im sure it will be 80 or 100 points soon :D!

SheeEttin | 2009-07-02 16:57

This is a pretty nice map, and it could be starred content, but there are some flaws...

First, the "plaza" area makes my FPS drop to about 5. This could be fixed by fewer details, or by using PVS. (PVS certainly helps, though part of the low framerate can be blamed on the underpowered drivers I'm using.)
You used a mapsize too large, meaning you have huge amounts of empty space. Copy-paste the map into the next-smaller mapsize (and fill any any unused area with clip and/or skybox textured cubes, allowing for space to fall off).
Your waypoints are kind of incomplete, too. They should cover almost every path. (This would be easier if they were entity-based, but I don't think that's going to happen.)
The Quad is far too easy to reach. Having a yellow armor right next to it is not a good idea, either.
The basement area is kind of empty and uninteresting... I don't forsee it being used too much.
Your use of jumppads for going up floors is kind of awkward... More accessible stairs would be better.
The lighting is somewhat boring. Above-ground, it needs more vibrancy, and below-ground, more shadow.
The big holes in the ground get in the way all the time.

Garak | 2009-07-02 19:13

Thanks for the comments. I'm working on a new version of this map.

1. Thanks for the suggestion about using PVS. That does help the framerate! I hope it's enough (the map is kind of slow on my computer too).

2. The only issue I have with doing this is that when someone shoots off the map, they'll see the bullets/rockets/explosion hit an invisible wall. By using a larger mapsize, that problem can be minimized. Although since a smaller mapsize could be more efficient, I might as well switch.

Question: I can copy the cubes, but how would I copy all of the entities at the same time also? That's what's preventing me from easily changing the map size.

3. Okay, that's easy enough to fix. I'll walk around more on the map.

4. Alright. I've tried something new to make the quad more difficult to reach, and I've moved the yellow armor elsewhere (off to the side now).

5. Okay, I could add some more stuff to the basement. Perhaps a few more ways to the surface would help?

6. Sure. Stairs are easy enough to add.

7. More shadow underground? What do you mean by that?

However, I'm not too sure on what I could do above. I could change the the color of the light a bit and adjust the skylight value. Changing the grass texture could help (I was using a greener one earlier).

8. Which big holes are you referring to? The ones that hold jumppads in the garden?

SheeEttin | 2009-07-02 20:00

Entities can be copied as long as they're selected. Select all the geometry, then press KP_ENTER or /entselect insel to select all the entities inside the current selection.

As for "shadow underground", never mind. You might want to reconsider the green lights, though.
Above-ground, I changed the skylight to less intense (and off-white, instead of white), and tweaked the sun light.

The holes I am referring to are the ones on either end of the map, the big square ones (though the jumppad holes are awkward to use and have to be worked around in play).

Blindabuser | 2009-07-02 17:01

Hi Garak,
it's such a pleasant surprise to see an ancient-themed map made "with all the trimmings": a true delight for the eye, which happens seldom, lately. I've explored every corner of your wonderful creation, but I haven't been able to find significant glitches or issues, so far.

Concerning the sniping points and the dark corners, in my opinion they just add fun to the map. Some people relates to games as they were a sort of stressful competition where you win or either you've lost your honor: I simply prefer to have fun, so trying to catch someone sniping at me on a turret it's more than appreciable. ;)

Maybe I'd clip the outside perimeter of the map, to prevent people falling down, but it could work also the way it is, if that's your purpose (fun makes the scene, again). Also, I agree about moving the quad damage to a more difficult point to reach. Lighting and the rest are ok, to me.

5/5: I hope to see more stuff from you (pity Sauerbraten has just been released, or this would've been one of my favorite maps to play with, for sure. :)

Garak | 2009-07-02 19:19

Thanks for the comments and suggestions people. I'll get the readme fixed and change some of the textures (among many other things).

MeatROme | 2009-07-02 19:53

I can't say for sure .. but at a guess I'd try replacing all those intricate pieces of woodwork - atop the walls and the "leaves" of the railing - with models .. this could help stabilize the fps while inside the courtyard.
The jumppads in the holes are VERY weird .. why not have them more usable - meaning about level with the rest of the floor!?!
The green lighting is a bit odd too.
But the general look-n-feel of the map is awesome - I agree with SheeEttin - potentially "starred content"!

Kretren | 2009-07-05 16:54

I don't know how much I like your use of the stained glass textures as lights in this map. They lack the depth that the rock textures provide.. Although I don't know what you could substitute them with.. Consider that though.

The layout I think is really interesting. I especially like the middle area with the high platforms surrounding the area and some things to hide behind. I was thinking about making a layout like that a while back but working with rock textures is something I'm not interested in..

Having said that, I feel campers will probably faint upon seeing this map. There's extreme potential for them but.. Ultimately I think a player COULD pick them off easily because the map's so close-quarters.

What is that small building where the flag is? It accomplishes nothing. There's one playerstart in there. The flag is BEHIND it, not even in it. Sure there's a ladder beside it so you can get on its roof, but then the building only serves as an empty room to stand on.. And something that gets in the way. Maybe put a door on its backside so you can get the flag and immediately run into it? Right now escape options are limited.

Also strengthen the jumppad in the midde area "well" the slightest bit (personal preference).

Finally, I'm not sure if this is the case and real playtesting will be needed to prove me wrong, but I think the sides are slightly unbalanced in the middle. One side gets a perfect barricade to hide behind and a quickly-accessible jumppad, and the other side gets a cumbersome tombstone object that you can't hide behind; a jumppad that's partially blocked by this tombstone, and a deep pool of water. In this map where sniping may be popular, water is basically suicide given how long it takes to get out. So maybe make the water shallower, and change the tombstone to something.. not an obstacle.

Very nice though. I find the map calming with its neutral tones and the textures work together. The lighting for me isn't bad at all. The gameplay is probably very good, on par with wdcd, because it's open but has some good things to hide behind.

4/5. And yes, star content is likely possible with some improvement.

Kretren | 2009-07-05 16:57

A second thing.. I was just testing the new cocoa skybox on this map (coincidentally) and it looks pretty good with this map. Maybe you might use it? Just a thought. If you do, rain would be a nice touch on the atmosphere.

Garak | 2009-07-05 19:44

Thanks for the suggestions kretren. I'll see if I can find another texture for the lights. As for the small buildings near the flags, they're intended to serve as a defensive position for whoever is near the flag. Also, I wanted any players that spawn there to not be immediately shot down by snipers who might be near the garden complex. With that said, I think adding some more spawn points in the building would be a good idea. There are 3 escape routes for whoever takes the flag right now (right side, left side, and the ladder), but I'll consider adding a back door to the building.
I'm not so sure about strengthening the jump pad in the well since it's already strong enough to have someone hit the ceiling there.
With regards to the central area, the intention was to make the two sides a bit different, but almost "equal" in terms of fairness for both sides. I'll see if I can make the pond side less cumbersome (I see what you mean especially with the fountain jump pad).
I like the cocoa skybox, but I don't think it has what I'm going for in this map in terms of the theme. I'd like to keep it sunny too.

Suicizer | 2009-07-05 19:32

yep, its better now :D!

nice u changed some textures, to make it feel more natural.

1 problem, i think u still get much camping on the map and most times, camping ruins the fun of the players that dont camp.

furhter nice map! 89 points :D! plz try to find a solution (maybe u just should fill up that hole on the roofs :P) for camping, then i give u 100 points!

Garak | 2009-07-05 20:13

Thanks for the suggestions. Heh. I just realized that a few of the spawn points are messed up.
Holes on the roofs? Do you mean the kind of open rooftops near the entrances to the garden? Hmm...I can't remove all roof warfare, but I could kind of limit the space on the roofs above the entrances a bit. I don't think I want to remove too many sniping spaces (since it can add an element of strategy). I'll think about it as I make more revisions.

AlexChastain | 2009-07-07 03:44

i would really love to see this map, which i did and from what i saw at 1fps it was really good, but sadly i could not run it in anyway smoothly

Garak | 2009-07-07 05:20

Sorry to hear that. Turning down the water settings and lowering the resolution a bit led to huge fps increases on my computer. Beyond that, it didn't seem like I could remove that much without drastically altering the map (removing little things by itself didn't make much of a framerate difference)

Quin | 2009-07-07 06:08

I think your biggest problem would be with the scale of the map and the lack of occluders (stuff that blocks the view of other stuff). If you have a fair bit of open space it can generally lower the frame rate, but if you have alot of occlusion available the map would benefit from a /genpvs

AlexChastain | 2009-07-07 14:43

i may try that :D, cant tell you how many times you have proved me wrong quin haha ill try as soon as sauerbraten re-installs

okicomputer | 2009-07-10 12:23

I'll try once i'll get home.I particularly like the roof you have made over the towers(top-left picture).

Drekow | 2010-02-20 02:49

This map is great and there is nothing to say but this spawnpoint sound strange:

The Insomniac | 2010-02-20 05:09

Needs more trees and plants imo. I don't really get a "Garden" feel from this.

Mysterious | 2010-02-21 16:39

you got a nice design , but this map is a little bit hard to play because:

- some corridors are to fancy , sometimes they are also too long
- the garden doesnt remind me to an real garden
- these jumppads are unlogical XD (what should they show ?^^)

If you try to improve these little things i will give you 10/10

But for now 7/10

( I love your design :S )

Chasester_aka_you | 2010-02-22 02:46

Ok design great.. a couple of things... jumppads are illogical ... u could argu that they are to get on top of the gazebo but ... there are 4 of them just does not make sences... you should move the yellow arrmour somewhere else... and add something to the top of the gazebo ... like a statue of the king.. u no the one that owns the garden... also if you do by some odd and unworldly reason decide to keep the 4 outside jumppads please change how they look ... they look like crap... one is an ocean texture and the other is a glass... stain glass texture... u no for windos... and about the jumppads in the water... lower them ... u can not jump from the water to the jumppad.. very anoying... instead of jumppads for the outside ones along the wall by the bases ... use ladders... and get rid of the one in the middle... just leave it so that you only can go down...

now to the quad ... for insta protection ... u always need a place to hide... on the oneside u have quad and a ill window and the other clip... this makes it unfair and also can be confusing cuz u if you dont know which side you are on ... u will die... get rid of the clip ... u dont have to make it look like the otherside but u could be a tele there....

Player spawns... alll the player spawns save one are good.... the one in front of the gate... i was playing bots... and i get sniped every time... move it... and u only have 5-6 spawns... u need more...

textures... im not bying the wood texture... in the bottom level... or realy anywhere were its not used as a fence but a trim.... THIS IS A PALACE GARDEN ... not a pesants shack... use something more elegant ... also the cornerpost in the bases that support the walls around the outside of the map... the tile texture lis not working .. and make them more elegent to ...

The gazebo ... if you do not no that the structure in the dead center of the map... u need the inside roof not to be flat.. gazebos inside roofs form to the outside...

plants... there 9 plant models in the mapmodel directory .... usethem ... and u could use some of the 10+ trees too ... its a garden ... not a courtyard ... its ment to have plants and look natural not tiles and rock every were...

a couple of structural changes... of cource the hallways are too small... simple rule if you hit your head ... its to small ... and u could back it a lil wider... also ... the waterbasins in the lower area.. it would be cool if you made the bottom curved... like the ceiling... and lastly the bridge that goes over the stairs at both bases ... ARCHED BRIDGE... not flat... also ... i lyed this is the last thing... the sniper posts one all the corner... RAISE THE ROOF... jump rule... make it arched like the gazebo ...

YOUR HUMBLE MASTER
chasester

BdR | 2010-05-01 12:52

Excellent map, great detail and I like the above/below (garden/dungeons) layout.